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	<title>Comments on: Form, Not Content</title>
	<link>http://www.timberglund.com/blog/archives/587</link>
	<description>See what large letters I use as I write to you in my own hand.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:38:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.timberglund.com/blog/archives/587#comment-2376</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Aug 2005 19:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.timberglund.com/blog/archives/587#comment-2376</guid>
					<description>Paul:

We are in substantial, but not complete, agreement.

First let me point out that this form thing is not the only gong I have to bang. In a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.timberglund.com/blog/archives/584&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;post of a few weeks ago&lt;/a&gt;, I outlined a few common worship music arguments I wanted to address. If I finish this series of posts, it will constitute my cumulative case argument against contemporary Christian worship and in favor of…something else. This particular post is only addressing form, which I consider to be a key issue in the debate (maybe more key than you do), but not the &lt;i&gt;only&lt;/i&gt; issue.

I’m not sure I agree that “most forms of music” can get the job done. I don’t know whether the fraction of winning forms breaks 50% or not, but I think I can say many forms don’t make the cut. Polka, speed metal, and adult contemporary pop are out. Hip-hop would be problematic (as much as I personally like it). Jazz might work. Various forms of classical music seemed to do a good job for a while. The point is, I tend to think we are looking for something fairly specialized and fairly different from what we use elsewhere in our lives. The extent to which people's lives are entertainment- and media-saturated &lt;i&gt;in our context&lt;/i&gt; underscores the importance of this “different-ness.” This is all I can say about this for now.

Let me agree that the goal is not to make our worship music sound like exactly like David’s Psalms as played and sung by him. (That would be the hyper-RPW camp, there. Those two guys are the last two faithful heirs of the Reformation!) Indeed, I acknowledge the critical importance that worship music be both &lt;i&gt;new&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;contextual&lt;/i&gt;. I have no desire for the American church to camp forever on old hymns, nor to impose the English-language hymnody (or American rock ‘n’ roll, for that matter) on believers like the ones you describe in PNG. I have little doubt that their folk cultural forms are pressed into effective service in the worship of God. Inasmuch as such forms were available as a shared vocabulary for Americans (they are mostly not), I would be ready to consider them.

A key consideration might be whether the Psalms you mentioned are telling us to use “whatever instruments may be available” or are instead giving us an incidental list of some instruments which happened to work well in one context. If the latter suggestion is credible, then my program of criticizing form (and its constituent, instrumentation) can survive. In this case, God is not telling us positively to maximize the diversity of worship instrumentation, but is instead telling us that we have the freedom to consider many options in our pursuit of the most suitable manner of making music to him. I believe this to be the case.

I would also affirm your point on excellence. Many of my concerns could be reformulated in terms of that category, but I have not chosen to take that approach. Nevertheless, playing, writing, and singing skillfully are all very important.

Another helpful post might be one that outlines the differences between worship music used when the saints are gathered and music which might be received doxologically when being played on one’s CD player in one’s late-model Tacoma. In my truck, fuzz boxes are welcome and are received as God’s gift to the godly and the ungodly alike. Given the significantly narrower purposes of our sanctuaries, they are not as good a fit on Sunday morning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul:</p>
<p>We are in substantial, but not complete, agreement.</p>
<p>First let me point out that this form thing is not the only gong I have to bang. In a <a href="http://www.timberglund.com/blog/archives/584" rel="nofollow">post of a few weeks ago</a>, I outlined a few common worship music arguments I wanted to address. If I finish this series of posts, it will constitute my cumulative case argument against contemporary Christian worship and in favor of…something else. This particular post is only addressing form, which I consider to be a key issue in the debate (maybe more key than you do), but not the <i>only</i> issue.</p>
<p>I’m not sure I agree that “most forms of music” can get the job done. I don’t know whether the fraction of winning forms breaks 50% or not, but I think I can say many forms don’t make the cut. Polka, speed metal, and adult contemporary pop are out. Hip-hop would be problematic (as much as I personally like it). Jazz might work. Various forms of classical music seemed to do a good job for a while. The point is, I tend to think we are looking for something fairly specialized and fairly different from what we use elsewhere in our lives. The extent to which people&#8217;s lives are entertainment- and media-saturated <i>in our context</i> underscores the importance of this “different-ness.” This is all I can say about this for now.</p>
<p>Let me agree that the goal is not to make our worship music sound like exactly like David’s Psalms as played and sung by him. (That would be the hyper-RPW camp, there. Those two guys are the last two faithful heirs of the Reformation!) Indeed, I acknowledge the critical importance that worship music be both <i>new</i> and <i>contextual</i>. I have no desire for the American church to camp forever on old hymns, nor to impose the English-language hymnody (or American rock ‘n’ roll, for that matter) on believers like the ones you describe in PNG. I have little doubt that their folk cultural forms are pressed into effective service in the worship of God. Inasmuch as such forms were available as a shared vocabulary for Americans (they are mostly not), I would be ready to consider them.</p>
<p>A key consideration might be whether the Psalms you mentioned are telling us to use “whatever instruments may be available” or are instead giving us an incidental list of some instruments which happened to work well in one context. If the latter suggestion is credible, then my program of criticizing form (and its constituent, instrumentation) can survive. In this case, God is not telling us positively to maximize the diversity of worship instrumentation, but is instead telling us that we have the freedom to consider many options in our pursuit of the most suitable manner of making music to him. I believe this to be the case.</p>
<p>I would also affirm your point on excellence. Many of my concerns could be reformulated in terms of that category, but I have not chosen to take that approach. Nevertheless, playing, writing, and singing skillfully are all very important.</p>
<p>Another helpful post might be one that outlines the differences between worship music used when the saints are gathered and music which might be received doxologically when being played on one’s CD player in one’s late-model Tacoma. In my truck, fuzz boxes are welcome and are received as God’s gift to the godly and the ungodly alike. Given the significantly narrower purposes of our sanctuaries, they are not as good a fit on Sunday morning.
</p>
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		<title>by: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.timberglund.com/blog/archives/587#comment-2216</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Aug 2005 19:37:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.timberglund.com/blog/archives/587#comment-2216</guid>
					<description>Thanks for the clarification. I have a few more thoughts to add...

You said:

&quot;we must show that it expects its subject matter is nothing less than the supreme object of value in the universe. It must be addressable to a Deity who is both intimately personal and terrifyingly other. It must be able to encompass the joyful celebration of God’s deliverance of his people as well as their careful reverence and awe before the one who is a consuming fire. It must move us from the vulgar routines our lives into a place where we do not dictate the terms of our own comfort, but instead are brought graciously to kneel before a Throne which will not much longer await the prostration of every human soul.&quot;

Your criteria for all worship music are as follows (my paraphrase):
1. expects its subject matter to be the supreme object of value in the universe
2. addressable to a Deity who is both 
	- intimately personal
	- terrifyingly other
3. encompass both:
	- joyful celebration of God’s deliverance of his people
	- our careful reverence and awe before the one who is a consuming fire
5. Refocus our attention from the common/everyday routines of our lives into a profound awareness of God and his Kingdom

These seem spot-on to me. And I think most forms of music, executed well, could bear the weight of your requirements. Yet no form will adequately &quot;do it all.&quot; 

Perhaps it would be helpful to discuss a couple of psalms that could perhaps weigh in here as patterns/models of worship to follow...

Psalm 33 (NIV, from http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?book_id=23&amp;#38;chapter=33&amp;#38;verse=1&amp;#38;end_verse=3&amp;#38;version=31&amp;#38;context=context) states:

    1 Sing joyfully to the LORD, you righteous;
       it is fitting for the upright to praise him.

    2 Praise the LORD with the harp;
       make music to him on the ten-stringed lyre.

    3 Sing to him a new song;
       play skillfully, and shout for joy.

Psalm 150 (NIV, from http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Psalm%20150;&amp;#38;version=31;) says:

    1 Praise the LORD.
       Praise God in his sanctuary;
       praise him in his mighty heavens.

    2 Praise him for his acts of power;
       praise him for his surpassing greatness.

    3 Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet,
       praise him with the harp and lyre,

    4 praise him with tambourine and dancing,
       praise him with the strings and flute,

    5 praise him with the clash of cymbals,
       praise him with resounding cymbals.

    6 Let everything that has breath praise the LORD.
       Praise the LORD.

Now, hermeneutically, do we attempt (assuming we even could) to go back to 8th century BC forms of Jewish worship (and only use instruments listed in Scripture!) as the only appropriately reverent expression of worship, or do we acknowledge that worship is always enculturated, contextual, and limited by human efforts? It seems to me that the first option is not really an option for most churches today. I have listened to best-attempts at recreating first-century Jewish music, and it certainly is an acquired taste!

Therefore, we must seek to bridge the gap between the ancient text and the modern world. And ask ourselves how well we can measure up to the thoughts expressed in these psalms (not to neglect the rest of the canon, but we have to start somewhere). What should biblically-informed worship music look like in 21st century USA? What guiding principles hold, and how do we apply these to our contemporary settings? (realizing that no two settings are the same).

Using these psalms as a starting point for discussing what appropriate worship music might look like, some applications that could be derived from these psalms concerning the nature of biblical worship music may consist of one or more of the following:

1. Worship music is an activity of God's people, to be joyfully engaged in.
2. Use whatever instruments (trumpet, harp, lyre, strings, flute etc) may be available to musicians to express their worship to God for who he is and what he has done for his people. This is perhaps a debatable point, but the psalmist seems to me to simply be listing his contemporary instruments commonly used for (all types of) music, rather than *prescribing* a list of acceptable instruments). The list seems descriptive, *not* prescriptive.
3. Originality is a good thing, and should be encouraged (&quot;sing to him a new song&quot;).
4. Worship is for the whole community of God's people, all who are able (&quot;you righteous...&quot;, &quot;let *everything* that has breath&quot;).
5. Skill in musicianship is a good thing (&quot;play skillfully&quot;), so excellence should be pursued.
6. Worship music is concerned with intentionally reflecting on the person of God (his power, greatness, convenant faithfulness, kingdom/sovereignty, purposes) and salvific acts in history in behalf of his people.

Just as an aside on instrumentation:

Having worshipped with a tribal group in Papua New Guinea who were using Kundu drums alone (hollowed out tree logs with monitor-lizard skin stretched over the stop, banged in synchronized rhythm by the men, with call-response songs between men and women), I have seen perhaps what could be thought of as one extreme of contextualized worship music. And it was good. Minimalist, but good (they were doing *their best*)

My thought is that excellence in music is a Christian virtue, and should be hotly pursued by any Christian musician as part of their life-calling (as a means to an end, never an idolatrous end in itself). God clearly deserves our best, and we should always seek to give nothing less.

That is my main issue with much of what is touted as worship music in the church. Yes, form *does* matter, as you say. But it is *not* form that is the main problem. The ultimate issue with most Christian worship music is that it is *crap*. By that I mean it is theologically ill-informed (the lyrics are vacuous and insipid), musically derivative (as well as unoriginal and repetative), inappropriate (out of context with the rest of what is occuring in the worship service), and - worst of all - idolatrous (the focus is on all the wrong things - the musos, my emotions, what is happening in *me*, what God has done for *me*, the worship leader, the pretty pictures on the slides etc etc). I could go one, but I think I am starting to get too worked up.

Finally, with regards to the use of overdriven guitar and what even secular maestros are capable of, listen to &quot;For the love of God&quot; by Steve Vai. &quot;Always with you, always with me&quot; or &quot;Cryin&quot; by Joe Satriani. Or the last three songs on the &quot;Three Sides to Every Story&quot; album by Extreme. 

If we want to speak of Christian guitarists, how about &quot;Shouts of Joy&quot; by Phil Keaggy on the &quot;Crimson and Blue&quot; album? Or just about anything by Tommy Emmanuel (one of Australia's greatest exports)? Or especially the incredible body of high-quality work by Michael Card (the Ancient Faith series, or any of his NT-concept albums come to mind)? [Dann Huff, one of Card's most regular session muso, has been one of the standout, although little known, American rock guitarists]. Just my opinion, but Card has done more than any other Christian musician to express Scripture in song as worship to God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the clarification. I have a few more thoughts to add&#8230;</p>
<p>You said:</p>
<p>&#8220;we must show that it expects its subject matter is nothing less than the supreme object of value in the universe. It must be addressable to a Deity who is both intimately personal and terrifyingly other. It must be able to encompass the joyful celebration of God’s deliverance of his people as well as their careful reverence and awe before the one who is a consuming fire. It must move us from the vulgar routines our lives into a place where we do not dictate the terms of our own comfort, but instead are brought graciously to kneel before a Throne which will not much longer await the prostration of every human soul.&#8221;</p>
<p>Your criteria for all worship music are as follows (my paraphrase):<br />
1. expects its subject matter to be the supreme object of value in the universe<br />
2. addressable to a Deity who is both<br />
	- intimately personal<br />
	- terrifyingly other<br />
3. encompass both:<br />
	- joyful celebration of God’s deliverance of his people<br />
	- our careful reverence and awe before the one who is a consuming fire<br />
5. Refocus our attention from the common/everyday routines of our lives into a profound awareness of God and his Kingdom</p>
<p>These seem spot-on to me. And I think most forms of music, executed well, could bear the weight of your requirements. Yet no form will adequately &#8220;do it all.&#8221; </p>
<p>Perhaps it would be helpful to discuss a couple of psalms that could perhaps weigh in here as patterns/models of worship to follow&#8230;</p>
<p>Psalm 33 (NIV, from <a href='http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?book_id=23&amp;chapter=33&amp;verse=1&amp;end_verse=3&amp;version=31&amp;context=context' rel='nofollow'>http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?book_id=23&amp;chapter=33&amp;verse=1&amp;end_verse=3&amp;version=31&amp;context=context</a>) states:</p>
<p>    1 Sing joyfully to the LORD, you righteous;<br />
       it is fitting for the upright to praise him.</p>
<p>    2 Praise the LORD with the harp;<br />
       make music to him on the ten-stringed lyre.</p>
<p>    3 Sing to him a new song;<br />
       play skillfully, and shout for joy.</p>
<p>Psalm 150 (NIV, from <a href='http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Psalm%20150;&amp;version=31;' rel='nofollow'>http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Psalm%20150;&amp;version=31;</a>) says:</p>
<p>    1 Praise the LORD.<br />
       Praise God in his sanctuary;<br />
       praise him in his mighty heavens.</p>
<p>    2 Praise him for his acts of power;<br />
       praise him for his surpassing greatness.</p>
<p>    3 Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet,<br />
       praise him with the harp and lyre,</p>
<p>    4 praise him with tambourine and dancing,<br />
       praise him with the strings and flute,</p>
<p>    5 praise him with the clash of cymbals,<br />
       praise him with resounding cymbals.</p>
<p>    6 Let everything that has breath praise the LORD.<br />
       Praise the LORD.</p>
<p>Now, hermeneutically, do we attempt (assuming we even could) to go back to 8th century BC forms of Jewish worship (and only use instruments listed in Scripture!) as the only appropriately reverent expression of worship, or do we acknowledge that worship is always enculturated, contextual, and limited by human efforts? It seems to me that the first option is not really an option for most churches today. I have listened to best-attempts at recreating first-century Jewish music, and it certainly is an acquired taste!</p>
<p>Therefore, we must seek to bridge the gap between the ancient text and the modern world. And ask ourselves how well we can measure up to the thoughts expressed in these psalms (not to neglect the rest of the canon, but we have to start somewhere). What should biblically-informed worship music look like in 21st century USA? What guiding principles hold, and how do we apply these to our contemporary settings? (realizing that no two settings are the same).</p>
<p>Using these psalms as a starting point for discussing what appropriate worship music might look like, some applications that could be derived from these psalms concerning the nature of biblical worship music may consist of one or more of the following:</p>
<p>1. Worship music is an activity of God&#8217;s people, to be joyfully engaged in.<br />
2. Use whatever instruments (trumpet, harp, lyre, strings, flute etc) may be available to musicians to express their worship to God for who he is and what he has done for his people. This is perhaps a debatable point, but the psalmist seems to me to simply be listing his contemporary instruments commonly used for (all types of) music, rather than *prescribing* a list of acceptable instruments). The list seems descriptive, *not* prescriptive.<br />
3. Originality is a good thing, and should be encouraged (&#8221;sing to him a new song&#8221;).<br />
4. Worship is for the whole community of God&#8217;s people, all who are able (&#8221;you righteous&#8230;&#8221;, &#8220;let *everything* that has breath&#8221;).<br />
5. Skill in musicianship is a good thing (&#8221;play skillfully&#8221;), so excellence should be pursued.<br />
6. Worship music is concerned with intentionally reflecting on the person of God (his power, greatness, convenant faithfulness, kingdom/sovereignty, purposes) and salvific acts in history in behalf of his people.</p>
<p>Just as an aside on instrumentation:</p>
<p>Having worshipped with a tribal group in Papua New Guinea who were using Kundu drums alone (hollowed out tree logs with monitor-lizard skin stretched over the stop, banged in synchronized rhythm by the men, with call-response songs between men and women), I have seen perhaps what could be thought of as one extreme of contextualized worship music. And it was good. Minimalist, but good (they were doing *their best*)</p>
<p>My thought is that excellence in music is a Christian virtue, and should be hotly pursued by any Christian musician as part of their life-calling (as a means to an end, never an idolatrous end in itself). God clearly deserves our best, and we should always seek to give nothing less.</p>
<p>That is my main issue with much of what is touted as worship music in the church. Yes, form *does* matter, as you say. But it is *not* form that is the main problem. The ultimate issue with most Christian worship music is that it is *crap*. By that I mean it is theologically ill-informed (the lyrics are vacuous and insipid), musically derivative (as well as unoriginal and repetative), inappropriate (out of context with the rest of what is occuring in the worship service), and - worst of all - idolatrous (the focus is on all the wrong things - the musos, my emotions, what is happening in *me*, what God has done for *me*, the worship leader, the pretty pictures on the slides etc etc). I could go one, but I think I am starting to get too worked up.</p>
<p>Finally, with regards to the use of overdriven guitar and what even secular maestros are capable of, listen to &#8220;For the love of God&#8221; by Steve Vai. &#8220;Always with you, always with me&#8221; or &#8220;Cryin&#8221; by Joe Satriani. Or the last three songs on the &#8220;Three Sides to Every Story&#8221; album by Extreme. </p>
<p>If we want to speak of Christian guitarists, how about &#8220;Shouts of Joy&#8221; by Phil Keaggy on the &#8220;Crimson and Blue&#8221; album? Or just about anything by Tommy Emmanuel (one of Australia&#8217;s greatest exports)? Or especially the incredible body of high-quality work by Michael Card (the Ancient Faith series, or any of his NT-concept albums come to mind)? [Dann Huff, one of Card&#8217;s most regular session muso, has been one of the standout, although little known, American rock guitarists]. Just my opinion, but Card has done more than any other Christian musician to express Scripture in song as worship to God.
</p>
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		<title>by: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.timberglund.com/blog/archives/587#comment-2183</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2005 22:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.timberglund.com/blog/archives/587#comment-2183</guid>
					<description>Paul:

First some areas of agreement:&lt;ol&gt;

	&lt;li&gt;Quality of muscianship is very important. I hadn't planned to address this issue at all, because it seems to get plenty of its own airtime, and everyone seems to agree on it. There is more to say, but I'm sure it would just be an exercise in boisterous, mutual agreement.&lt;/li&gt;

	&lt;li&gt;Merely being a guitar does not disqualify an instrument for use in worship music. Guitars == good. Especially classical guitar. Mmmm...&lt;/li&gt;

&lt;/ol&gt;


Now a bit of clarification:
Note that I am not really targeting one single genre of music (adult contemporary pop) as wrong, and leaving the door open for all others. I'm saying ACP is right out, along with likely many others, and attempting to provide a start at some canons by which genres might be contrasted. The question is whether form X is a good choice for use in worship music, not whether any particular kind of instrumentation gets the thumbs up or not.

Now for  the disagreement part:
Personally, I’m not partial to fuzz boxes as instruments to support congregational singing. Making a good argument against them would require a better musicologist than I—like I said, I certainly don’t have the chops to finish any point of this argument when it is reduced to specifics—but I suspect that argument is out there and can be made successfully. This, of course, is not to say that fuzz boxes create a wicked sound, or even they can’t be used to communicate important divine themes. It is only to say that they are probably a bad match for the narrow requirements I have proposed for ecclesiastical music.

As much as they, and you, truly do rock.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul:</p>
<p>First some areas of agreement:
<ol>
<li>Quality of muscianship is very important. I hadn&#8217;t planned to address this issue at all, because it seems to get plenty of its own airtime, and everyone seems to agree on it. There is more to say, but I&#8217;m sure it would just be an exercise in boisterous, mutual agreement.</li>
<li>Merely being a guitar does not disqualify an instrument for use in worship music. Guitars == good. Especially classical guitar. Mmmm&#8230;</li>
</ol>
<p>Now a bit of clarification:<br />
Note that I am not really targeting one single genre of music (adult contemporary pop) as wrong, and leaving the door open for all others. I&#8217;m saying ACP is right out, along with likely many others, and attempting to provide a start at some canons by which genres might be contrasted. The question is whether form X is a good choice for use in worship music, not whether any particular kind of instrumentation gets the thumbs up or not.</p>
<p>Now for  the disagreement part:<br />
Personally, I’m not partial to fuzz boxes as instruments to support congregational singing. Making a good argument against them would require a better musicologist than I—like I said, I certainly don’t have the chops to finish any point of this argument when it is reduced to specifics—but I suspect that argument is out there and can be made successfully. This, of course, is not to say that fuzz boxes create a wicked sound, or even they can’t be used to communicate important divine themes. It is only to say that they are probably a bad match for the narrow requirements I have proposed for ecclesiastical music.</p>
<p>As much as they, and you, truly do rock.
</p>
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		<title>by: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.timberglund.com/blog/archives/587#comment-2182</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2005 21:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.timberglund.com/blog/archives/587#comment-2182</guid>
					<description>Sure musical style matters. I assume when you ask &quot;can contemporary music do this well?&quot; you are referring to what you call &quot;adult contemporary pop.&quot; This seems to me to be a given, if you are referring to what gets churned out to the masses and charted on Billboard. What - if anything - does &quot;adult contemporary pop&quot; do well (other than make money for artists and record companies)? Musically, calling it insipid is being generous...But, speaking as a musician who happens to be quite passionate about guitars and fuzz boxes, it is unfair to take pop trash (and the associated production, marketing etc. work that goes into creating it) and tar everyone with the same brush. Thinking guitars, it's a big jump from Enrique to Sting, or from Outkast to Eric Johnson. Clearly, music must take into account both subject (us and our ability to express our worship in music) and object (God)As an aside, I think the issue also needs to take into account issues such as quality of musicianship as well as form and content.  Just some thoughts...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure musical style matters. I assume when you ask &#8220;can contemporary music do this well?&#8221; you are referring to what you call &#8220;adult contemporary pop.&#8221; This seems to me to be a given, if you are referring to what gets churned out to the masses and charted on Billboard. What - if anything - does &#8220;adult contemporary pop&#8221; do well (other than make money for artists and record companies)? Musically, calling it insipid is being generous&#8230;But, speaking as a musician who happens to be quite passionate about guitars and fuzz boxes, it is unfair to take pop trash (and the associated production, marketing etc. work that goes into creating it) and tar everyone with the same brush. Thinking guitars, it&#8217;s a big jump from Enrique to Sting, or from Outkast to Eric Johnson. Clearly, music must take into account both subject (us and our ability to express our worship in music) and object (God)As an aside, I think the issue also needs to take into account issues such as quality of musicianship as well as form and content.  Just some thoughts&#8230;
</p>
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