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	<title>Comments on: People Seem To Like It: Suing For Market-Based Peace In The Worship Wars</title>
	<link>http://www.timberglund.com/blog/archives/583</link>
	<description>See what large letters I use as I write to you in my own hand.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Asaph</title>
		<link>http://www.timberglund.com/blog/archives/583#comment-1464</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2005 04:23:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.timberglund.com/blog/archives/583#comment-1464</guid>
					<description>Tim,
I’m thinking we need to take your marketplace investment plan a little further. I imagine the marketplace will demand this in time anyway, but I see right away that more distinctions are immediately needed.

For example, in the curmudgeon camp you will surely have historically astute hymn purists who realize that, for example, many of Isaac Watts' hymns in their original form included 10-24 stanzas. So, for years the hymnal editors have been bringing the cookies down to the floor, giving us the weany 4-verse Kindergarten renditions. For all the talk about substance and doctrine, there may be some who truly will want the “full meal deal.” You don’t like the “hell” versions, well we’ll need a way to delete verses 17-21.

Meanwhile, in the “cool” camp, there will be many who will make a distinction between the Krispy Kreme hot songs of Rick Heil as being performed immaturely and arrogantly, while their heart really connects with Darlene Zschech’s zesty yet humble heartcry. Further, for example within the “Passion” movement, there will be those who love some of Chris Tomlin’s scriptural and kickin’ guitar songs, while ignoring others, and rejecting virtually all of Charlie Hall’s minimalistic bluster. Believe it or not, there is a lot of discernment that takes place within those last 5 minutes of time testedness on the new songs.

So, I propose we hit the marketplace first with “W-Tunes”. It’ll be a typical Christian (come to the party 5 years late with a genuine imitation) ripoff of I-tunes. I could envision it working something like this: At the point of Membership, each person is given their very own W-Tune player. It could come stocked with greatest hits from the 1600s, 1700s, 1800s, and 1900s (since most &quot;historic worship&quot; dudes still skip the first 3/4 of church history) and have $.77 downloadable singles (as Christians love both discounts and symbolic numbers). Rather than waste time recruiting and rehearsing musicians (and buying the necessary pipe organs or guitar amplifiers), during the “worship music” time, everyone can put on their headsets and dial up their favorite worship songs on their personal W-Tunes players. 

Just think of the benefits!  Noone will have to sing along, much less even listen to, songs they don’t like. Or hear tone deaf singers around them. With everything professionally recorded, there will be no more bad mixes or feedback problems to distract aural aesthetes. People could finally truly “worship” in complete freedom. Autonomy ‘R’ Us! Those who want to stand up and clap and even dance with Integrity’s Hosanna could do so. While those who want to meditate to chants or Bach cantatas could do that with their eyes closed in a kneeling position. 38 times through a Vineyard chorus -- no one has to write the staff nasty notes. Everyone is in the driver's seat. Nobody bothers nobody because everyone’s fully immersed (sprinkled?) in his or her own professionally privatized worship experience. Noone can complain at a worship leader or anyone else about the worship music. All it takes is another $.77 to find personal satisfaction. 

Tim, we gotta get this to market fast. Or someone else will be bound to beat us to it. There’s money to be made and church wars to end.

I got another variant as well. Since not everyone always likes their pastor’s preaching, do I hear “P-Tunes”? …


-- ASAPH</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim,<br />
I’m thinking we need to take your marketplace investment plan a little further. I imagine the marketplace will demand this in time anyway, but I see right away that more distinctions are immediately needed.</p>
<p>For example, in the curmudgeon camp you will surely have historically astute hymn purists who realize that, for example, many of Isaac Watts&#8217; hymns in their original form included 10-24 stanzas. So, for years the hymnal editors have been bringing the cookies down to the floor, giving us the weany 4-verse Kindergarten renditions. For all the talk about substance and doctrine, there may be some who truly will want the “full meal deal.” You don’t like the “hell” versions, well we’ll need a way to delete verses 17-21.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, in the “cool” camp, there will be many who will make a distinction between the Krispy Kreme hot songs of Rick Heil as being performed immaturely and arrogantly, while their heart really connects with Darlene Zschech’s zesty yet humble heartcry. Further, for example within the “Passion” movement, there will be those who love some of Chris Tomlin’s scriptural and kickin’ guitar songs, while ignoring others, and rejecting virtually all of Charlie Hall’s minimalistic bluster. Believe it or not, there is a lot of discernment that takes place within those last 5 minutes of time testedness on the new songs.</p>
<p>So, I propose we hit the marketplace first with “W-Tunes”. It’ll be a typical Christian (come to the party 5 years late with a genuine imitation) ripoff of I-tunes. I could envision it working something like this: At the point of Membership, each person is given their very own W-Tune player. It could come stocked with greatest hits from the 1600s, 1700s, 1800s, and 1900s (since most &#8220;historic worship&#8221; dudes still skip the first 3/4 of church history) and have $.77 downloadable singles (as Christians love both discounts and symbolic numbers). Rather than waste time recruiting and rehearsing musicians (and buying the necessary pipe organs or guitar amplifiers), during the “worship music” time, everyone can put on their headsets and dial up their favorite worship songs on their personal W-Tunes players. </p>
<p>Just think of the benefits!  Noone will have to sing along, much less even listen to, songs they don’t like. Or hear tone deaf singers around them. With everything professionally recorded, there will be no more bad mixes or feedback problems to distract aural aesthetes. People could finally truly “worship” in complete freedom. Autonomy ‘R’ Us! Those who want to stand up and clap and even dance with Integrity’s Hosanna could do so. While those who want to meditate to chants or Bach cantatas could do that with their eyes closed in a kneeling position. 38 times through a Vineyard chorus &#8212; no one has to write the staff nasty notes. Everyone is in the driver&#8217;s seat. Nobody bothers nobody because everyone’s fully immersed (sprinkled?) in his or her own professionally privatized worship experience. Noone can complain at a worship leader or anyone else about the worship music. All it takes is another $.77 to find personal satisfaction. </p>
<p>Tim, we gotta get this to market fast. Or someone else will be bound to beat us to it. There’s money to be made and church wars to end.</p>
<p>I got another variant as well. Since not everyone always likes their pastor’s preaching, do I hear “P-Tunes”? …</p>
<p>&#8211; ASAPH
</p>
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		<title>by: Adeodatus</title>
		<link>http://www.timberglund.com/blog/archives/583#comment-955</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jul 2005 15:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.timberglund.com/blog/archives/583#comment-955</guid>
					<description>I should say this is a modest proposal in quelling the contentions and vagaries regarding The Peoples' Preferences.  The subtleties in implementation are what really make this a equitable solution: by breaking down the trypical service into its component parts, not only will the market reveal the desires of the consumers but it will generate a genuine sense of human involvement and investment in the very makeup of the local Worship Experience.  Even if a consumer block does not have the liquid assets to secure its preferred, say, invocation, initial song set, or offertory music, it surely will be able --regardless of means-- to secure something like bulletin paper color or benediction ending (&quot;Amen&quot;, &quot;Have a Good Week&quot;, &quot;Y'all scoot, now!&quot;).  Surely this will go a long way in establishing a true feeling of ownership in their local Worship Community.

Of course, breaking down the Worship Experience into minute parts may cause initial difficulties in implementation (&quot;Did the market call for kneeling, standing, or twirling during today's congregational prayer?&quot;).   But this will only demand a minor increase in scheduling and communication over the detailed charts and plans extant. This raises another objection: that the market forces will dictate strange behaviours.  What if the Sermon is secured by a consumer block desiring Garrison Keillor-like monologues (complete with sound effects), or an invocation involving balloon animals? To this I say: thusly will the church shake off its elitist, top-down management style and learn to give expression to the sincerely, heart-based languages of the people.

Finally, as to these theoretical “poor”: are we talking about OUR churches or some speculative demographic in Calcutta? The last thing we need to introduce into this promising dialog is “foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels,” for Titus’ sake. If some of these hypothetical poor should actually show up in our houses of worship, they can always sit in those empty seats on the front row and play with the little pencils if they don’t care for the worship style.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should say this is a modest proposal in quelling the contentions and vagaries regarding The Peoples&#8217; Preferences.  The subtleties in implementation are what really make this a equitable solution: by breaking down the trypical service into its component parts, not only will the market reveal the desires of the consumers but it will generate a genuine sense of human involvement and investment in the very makeup of the local Worship Experience.  Even if a consumer block does not have the liquid assets to secure its preferred, say, invocation, initial song set, or offertory music, it surely will be able &#8211;regardless of means&#8211; to secure something like bulletin paper color or benediction ending (&#8221;Amen&#8221;, &#8220;Have a Good Week&#8221;, &#8220;Y&#8217;all scoot, now!&#8221;).  Surely this will go a long way in establishing a true feeling of ownership in their local Worship Community.</p>
<p>Of course, breaking down the Worship Experience into minute parts may cause initial difficulties in implementation (&#8221;Did the market call for kneeling, standing, or twirling during today&#8217;s congregational prayer?&#8221;).   But this will only demand a minor increase in scheduling and communication over the detailed charts and plans extant. This raises another objection: that the market forces will dictate strange behaviours.  What if the Sermon is secured by a consumer block desiring Garrison Keillor-like monologues (complete with sound effects), or an invocation involving balloon animals? To this I say: thusly will the church shake off its elitist, top-down management style and learn to give expression to the sincerely, heart-based languages of the people.</p>
<p>Finally, as to these theoretical “poor”: are we talking about OUR churches or some speculative demographic in Calcutta? The last thing we need to introduce into this promising dialog is “foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels,” for Titus’ sake. If some of these hypothetical poor should actually show up in our houses of worship, they can always sit in those empty seats on the front row and play with the little pencils if they don’t care for the worship style.
</p>
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		<title>by: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.timberglund.com/blog/archives/583#comment-767</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jul 2005 14:56:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.timberglund.com/blog/archives/583#comment-767</guid>
					<description>pentamom:

One probably doesn't just yet. My fault. Just ignore that outburst, and at some point in the next coupla weeks, I may have a registration feature exposed to the world. (This stuff is hard for me to test, since Wordpress usually thinks I'm &quot;logged in,&quot; but is somewhat flakey about making that determination. It, or a simply CAPTCHA system, or both, will get my attention soon.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pentamom:</p>
<p>One probably doesn&#8217;t just yet. My fault. Just ignore that outburst, and at some point in the next coupla weeks, I may have a registration feature exposed to the world. (This stuff is hard for me to test, since Wordpress usually thinks I&#8217;m &#8220;logged in,&#8221; but is somewhat flakey about making that determination. It, or a simply CAPTCHA system, or both, will get my attention soon.)
</p>
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		<title>by: pentamom</title>
		<link>http://www.timberglund.com/blog/archives/583#comment-766</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:07:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.timberglund.com/blog/archives/583#comment-766</guid>
					<description>Help out the dense here:

How does one register? Nothing is obviously presenting itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Help out the dense here:</p>
<p>How does one register? Nothing is obviously presenting itself.
</p>
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		<title>by: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.timberglund.com/blog/archives/583#comment-739</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 13:38:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.timberglund.com/blog/archives/583#comment-739</guid>
					<description>Yeah, I not sure this particular antispam plugin will live forever. There's another CAPTCHA-based solution out there, which I may try soon. But remember: those who register can bypass the security codes altogether. (You should test this for me! I registered through a different mechanism, so I'm not sure how end-user comment registration really works.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I not sure this particular antispam plugin will live forever. There&#8217;s another CAPTCHA-based solution out there, which I may try soon. But remember: those who register can bypass the security codes altogether. (You should test this for me! I registered through a different mechanism, so I&#8217;m not sure how end-user comment registration really works.)
</p>
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		<title>by: pentamom</title>
		<link>http://www.timberglund.com/blog/archives/583#comment-737</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 12:29:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.timberglund.com/blog/archives/583#comment-737</guid>
					<description>&quot;In extreme cases where the prices inflate to very high levels, worshippers of more modest means can reorganize into congregations in which they can expect to exert more influence.&quot;

A time-honored tactic indeed! And it will have the bonus of allowing people to associate those with similar means, as well as worship tastes. Just think of all the traditional sorts who will no longer have to be irritated by the masculine ponytail, and better yet, those who favor Birkenstocks with cutoffs for Sunday morning need never again be offended by a tailored suit!

Brilliant. (In the sort of way that the decor in Screwtape's office could be said to be brilliant, that is to say. A lot of light generated by SOMETHING, that is for sure.)

Not having spam is nice, but will we really have to enter TWO security codes with every post? It's an exhausting thought.  ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In extreme cases where the prices inflate to very high levels, worshippers of more modest means can reorganize into congregations in which they can expect to exert more influence.&#8221;</p>
<p>A time-honored tactic indeed! And it will have the bonus of allowing people to associate those with similar means, as well as worship tastes. Just think of all the traditional sorts who will no longer have to be irritated by the masculine ponytail, and better yet, those who favor Birkenstocks with cutoffs for Sunday morning need never again be offended by a tailored suit!</p>
<p>Brilliant. (In the sort of way that the decor in Screwtape&#8217;s office could be said to be brilliant, that is to say. A lot of light generated by SOMETHING, that is for sure.)</p>
<p>Not having spam is nice, but will we really have to enter TWO security codes with every post? It&#8217;s an exhausting thought.  <img src='http://www.timberglund.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />
</p>
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